EP 138: Why It’s Important To Grieve Adoption With Adoptee Vanna Padilla

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
------------------------------------

Have you ever paused to consider the intricate weave of emotions and identity that comes with being adopted? Vanna offers us a window into her soul as she recounts the heartfelt journey of being 'half adopted.' Her personal narrative is layered with the complexities of family, the essence of ethnicity in forging one's self-concept, and the longing for transparency in conversations about our beginnings.Through our engrossing dialogue, we unpack the importance of openly discussing race and ethnicity with children, especially within adoptive environments. It's not just about recognizing skin color or cultural heritage—it's about fostering a sense of belonging and addressing the mixed emotions that adoption can stir. Vanna's insights reveal how acknowledging the intertwining of loss and love can become a catalyst for healing, both for adoptees and their families. The exchange of stories highlights the necessity of grieving as a foundation for growth and understanding in the adoption narrative.

JUMP RIGHT TO IT:

------------------------------------

0:00 Introductions with Vanna Padilla

8:07 Importance of Acknowledging Adoption and Ethnicity

16:38 Facing Rejection and Finding Grace

24:27 The Complexity of Adoption and Faith

Have you been adopted or do you know of anyone who has been?

CONNECT WITH VANNA:

------------------------------------

Instagram: @vannapadilla_np

TikTok: @vannapadilla_np

Wild Interest

Wild Interest is an audio magazine created by kids for curious minds of all ages....

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Contact The Show!

Website: http://www.ahnafulmer.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectlyempoweredpodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ahnafulmer/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ahnadfulmer

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Savannah, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I was actually laying in bed last night and you know how your mind starts to race when you're trying to wind down.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Yeah, it's the perfect time of course I know it's just.

Speaker 1: 0:38

It's always such a blessing, but it really was because I thought you know what? I cannot wait to talk to Anna tomorrow, because you know, I had you as a guest on my podcast and there's just these relationships when you've never even met before, but then you start to speak and it's just like this easy thing that happens. So thank you for that and thank you for this space that makes people feel comfortable to share their stories and genuinely, I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Oh, thank you. That was so sweet of you. I was on Vanna's podcast, by the way, let's give that a shout out. It's the MomGilt podcast. She's a fantastic interviewer, so you definitely want to go check out MomGilt podcast. And, yeah, it was an honor to be on yours, but it was during that conversation. We connected on so many levels.

Speaker 2: 1:28

So, for those of you that don't know, vanna is actually a skincare expert over a decade of dermatological experience. She's a nurse practitioner. She is going to be on the podcast again. She's coming into our early morning habit community as a live guest expert and then that will end up being posted to the podcast. We're going to talk all about skincare, which I'm so excited to dive into that. But when I was on her podcast, it came out that she is what she termed half adopted. She heard about the adoption program and the element to that, as the early morning habit is creating this adoption advocacy through our fundraising program, and she was sharing her story and I was like, oh my word, would you be willing to talk about your story on the podcast, because it's so insightful and no one's talking about it. It's really hard to talk about it and I'm so grateful for you. So let's press rewind and just kind of start at the beginning and tell us a little bit about your adoptee experience.

Speaker 1: 2:31

So I grew up in a small town in Alabama. If you can't tell with my accent she makes it sound so beautiful though.

Speaker 1: 2:40

I appreciate that because I do get self-conscious of it sometimes, but I grew up and I am half adopted, as I like to say, by my father and I've never met my biological father to this day. And it's a unique story because I actually have met my biological grandparents, also spoken to my biological and his sister, so I think that it's really important to say that I knew that I wasn't being chosen by him and it really was never talked about in our home and I think that comes with because it's a unique story for my mother and that's not for me to share. But anytime I would ask and I think honestly, the first time I ever got enough courage to ask my mom about it I was in college, because it just was not talked about. I knew I was adopted. I remember going to the courthouse, I remember changing my name and I remember my parents saying that I was going to be adopted, but it wasn't a safe space to talk about emotionally, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 3:49

How old?

Speaker 1: 3:49

were you at the time. I think I was seven, so I have vague memories, and what's so unique also is that I've never spoken to my biological father, but I do remember speaking on the phone with my grandparents who lived in Hawaii, and they for some reason he wouldn't sign his rights over. This is the only part of the adoption that I remember that he wouldn't sign the rights over, and they were asking is this really what you want? And in my head I was thinking what do you mean? Is this what I want? This man has been my father since I was one to two years old I don't know any differently and my biological father clearly wants nothing to do with me. So of course, this is what I want, but it was very confusing and it's very tug of war and I think a lot of that would have been alleviated if it would have just been talked about. And how does this make you feel? Because off air we were talking about there's a time to grieve that and a time to process those emotions.

Speaker 2: 4:52

And you were. So you said you were seven at the time and the man who was legally changing your name to his last name was the only father you had ever known up to that point. And then, as you got older, tell me a little bit about any thoughts that went through your mind, or did you have any struggles with this idea that you were adopted? Tell me some of the progression of your thoughts and emotions around being adopted.

Speaker 1: 5:31

I really think a lot of them are unconscious and it does play a role that I so. I was born in Hawaii. I actually did a genetic testing and I am 46% of Chinese descent, so, as you can tell, I have an ethnicity to me. So it was something that, when I was Is there any Polynesian?

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, a little bit yeah. So you know our son's Polynesian, that's who we're adopting.

Speaker 1: 5:56

No.

Speaker 2: 5:57

He's from the Pacific Island of Samoa, so he'll be Polynesian.

Speaker 1: 6:00

Yes, so I always identified a specific islander and I always put that on all of my forms and that's that is kind of what I identify with. And then I know that there's a lot more nuance to that. But when I did the genetic testing it said 46% Chinese, and then there is Polynesian Samoa, all that in there and all of that to say I have an ethnicity and you can tell that when you look at me, I can tell that when I look in the mirror. So I knew that I didn't look anything like my mother. If you've ever seen my mother, she has blonde, curly hair very light eyes.

Speaker 1: 6:38

And then my father. He does have like a dirty, light brown, blonde, reddish hair and dark eyes, but you can tell I don't look anything like either one of my parents. So there's this unconscious reminder that I don't belong and that is farther from the truth. That is a complete lie, but it's something that was always brought up and I was always asked about. They were like you don't really look like your parents, and then it would go into the story of, well, I don't know my biological father. So there was always this reminder, but, again, never talked about. So I think I just compartmentalized it and to the point where I couldn't anymore because as I became older, there was these things that would surface of not being good enough, not having like the self worth, and I think it's because I didn't deal with all of that growing up and it was never talked about.

Speaker 2: 7:34

Yeah, yeah, the subconscious feeling of I don't belong is something I would love to touch on for a second, because it's such an interesting reality that I love the fact that you said it subconscious, because it's true, I think, especially as a kid it's. I think there's a lot more awareness on racial diversity, which is a good thing, like acknowledging that somebody looks different, because it's not a bad thing, it's just a fact, like they look different and embracing that which is beautiful. But even like our age, that was not as much the case, you know, a decade ago or so when we were growing up, or two decades, and there is that sense of what you see around you and if it's not matching what you see in the mirror, that is like a subconscious, oh, maybe I don't quite belong, just like I would feel if I was. You know, being raised in an African village, I can certainly understand how that would start to feel, like that subconscious message of I don't belong, especially if it's not being acknowledged.

Speaker 2: 8:42

I was in church the other day. It was the cutest thing. There was these two little. One little girl was three and the one little girl was four and they were both very, very dark brown skin and the little three year old stopped in the hall and saw the little four year old and she held out her hand and she said we match. And it just was like the sweetest, like so simple, just this concept. But it's a predominantly like majority white church and this little girl just saw another little girl and it was just like this simple observation that we match and it just, I don't know why, it melted my heart. It's this idea that we need to be acknowledged and that subconscious feeling of I don't belong when it's not being acknowledged. That narrative then isn't being addressed. So I'm curious to hear, like hindsight vision, obviously in reverse, what do you think would have been helpful for you growing up to help interrupt that narrative in your mind of I don't belong, knowing that it wasn't true but still that narrative is existing?

Speaker 1: 9:51

And I think it's important to say that I went to a private school. It was predominantly why there was barely any ethnicity within it. That's probably changed by now graduated in a class of 42. So it was. I was very different, and there were, there were times when friends and now they have called, they have texted and said I am so sorry if anything I ever said was of a racial slur to you. In my heart of hearts, these people, I love them, they love me and I know that. But again it wasn't talked about and acknowledged to be. Hey, maybe that's not appropriate, but then again, like I said, it wasn't talked about.

Speaker 1: 10:35

So what I think, first and foremost, is for you to just ask and maybe, if your kids aren't willing to talk about it and they're not being super open, just keep asking, because that was another thing. I think it's a generational thing that things were just swept under the rug in general when I was growing up, and I'm thankful that that's changing and we are actually talking about that too. But in just saying this is where you come from, like, how do you feel about that? And just leaving it open to even talk about it, because if it's not brought up, think about it, someone that's younger, in their 10, 12, into their teens. If you're not asking them and directing those questions, they don't even know how to voice that and I didn't either. In saying it was a subconscious thing and even to recognize like, hey, I've heard other people's stories and they said it made them feel this way. Do you feel that way Because they may not know or understand what they actually are feeling? I didn't, certainly.

Speaker 2: 11:44

And you're saying specifically asking them about how they feel being a different ethnicity than what they might be seeing around them. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1: 11:55

Yeah, simply that, or even the adoption piece of feeling rejected. And now I see it and it's so beautiful to really think about, and I did faith-based counseling a couple of years ago and it did it dawn on me that it was actually protection and redirection, not rejection whatsoever. But I didn't realize that until I really thought about my circumstance and the fact that only such a good Heavenly Father would set me up to have an earthly Father who is an amazing Father to me. I couldn't have asked better of him. That it's kind of the picture of Jesus. Right, he didn't have to, but he did. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:48

And a lot of people can't fathom that and they can't grasp that, but thankfully I can because that happened to me in real life.

Speaker 2: 12:57

It's so beautiful, yep, yep, that'll make you cry. I mean, I cry on the podcast all the time, so what's new People are so used to hearing me cry.

Speaker 1: 13:07

I would not be surprised if I do cry today too. So we'll be even I mean listen, you and me both.

Speaker 2: 13:12

What you talked about though this is the piece that I think we're going to be talking about, I think really resonates with me even as well. Speaking of crying, it's going to happen really quickly. Like I grieve the fact that my son has to be adopted. Like that kills me. Like I grieve adoption. I grieve the fact that he has had to go for six plus years of his life having never heard a mother say I love you in return.

Speaker 2: 13:42

We just had a FaceTime with him the other day and he said I love you in English, and it threw me so off guard because he doesn't speak English. And I said I love you in return and it just like I went into the bathroom and just sobbed. I was like it took six plus years for him to hear that in return from a mother, and I grieved for his biological mother, that she never had the opportunity to share that to him because of her own life circumstances and the situation that brought her to the place where she felt she had no choice but to give up her son. I mean, like that's heartbreaking.

Speaker 2: 14:24

And you know, I think there's this element to adoption that, yes, it's beautiful, but we need to let ourselves grieve first, because it's like it is, it's heartbreaking, and so, tapping into that this is, you know, my grieving as an adoptive mom. But you mentioned that sense of grieving as someone who has adopted and why it was so important for you to do, and I would love to just hear I think this is something so important for all of us to talk about and hear why it is so essential to grieve adoption.

Speaker 1: 15:04

I love that and I've never thought of it that way until you said it and I so.

Speaker 1: 15:11

First of all, I think it's, and I think this is a part of the grieving process.

Speaker 1: 15:14

I think it's important to say it's okay to not be okay, it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be sad, it's okay to not understand and work through those emotions.

Speaker 1: 15:28

And you can't do that unless you're not talking, unless you're talking about it, right, yeah, but then also do not let it speak to your self-worth too. But also feeling the feelings, like you said, of what could have been, of what could have you could have had as a family with your biological parents. It's okay to think about that and wonder about that, but again, the way that I look at it and I frame it and it's not being dismissive, because I truly feel like this, but reiterating the fact that it's not necessarily rejection, but it's protection and it's redirection and it's better than I could have ever imagined for myself God always takes something that's so difficult and makes something way better than you could have ever imagined from it. But I think the biggest piece is to say that it's okay not to be okay and it's okay to feel the feelings that you were feeling and to imagine the things that could have been, but the most important part is talking about it.

Speaker 2: 16:39

Yeah, and you talk about the idea of rejection. Are you saying in terms of, like, when you think about your biological father, like, talk about that for a minute and just the emotions that you had to work through as you got older, and that concept of rejection, how you deal with that idea that you were not chosen, like you said so beautifully?

Speaker 1: 17:05

So for the longest time when I was younger it was defense mechanism of I don't wanna meet him. If he doesn't want to meet me, then I don't wanna meet him, and I didn't realize that again, those were just walls up to protect myself. I didn't really necessarily mean that and I really don't long to meet him. I feel like there would be things that I had to work through like a grieving process of, if I did ever encounter him in person that I would have to really forgive. I would really have to have some grace for him and understand that anybody, in any circumstance, you cannot judge and you cannot say that you wouldn't do the exact same thing as them and accept that.

Speaker 1: 17:52

But as far as rejection goes, I started to realize this theme as I became an adult, especially in my marriage. Everything would always default to well, I'm just not good enough, I can't do it right, I'm just not good enough. And I think it's very much rooted in the fact that from birth I was not chosen by my biological father and that's it's hurtful. And I know he knows about me because as I got older my parents would say we would contact him and ask him if we could bring you to him to meet and he always said no. And come to find out after talking with my biological aunt. He's just a very walled off, reserved in her words, an angry person. So I'm probably full of shame.

Speaker 1: 18:45

Probably full of shame if he's really being honest.

Speaker 2: 18:47

I mean, who wouldn't be?

Speaker 1: 18:48

It's human yeah, yeah, and even my mom's full of shame Every time I would ask her about it. She'd say I knew you were gonna ask about this. I was like, of course I'm gonna ask about this.

Speaker 1: 18:57

This is my story, but, yes, feeling rejected in the fact that he did not want me, which could probably I don't know that, but that's the story I told myself, or that's even the lies that the enemy has spun against me and then used in every facet of my life. Well, you're not good enough, and we knew that from the beginning, which is a lie. It's just a lie.

Speaker 2: 19:22

Yeah, what would you say? Because I think not that I would know, but because we're human, I cannot imagine that there is not some point that every adopted child faces this narrative. I mean, I'm putting myself in their shoes. I just can't imagine that there isn't some point in their story, no matter how well they are loved by their adopted parents, that this is not something that they have to face and make a choice how they're going to walk through it, because it's human and it's not how it was meant to be. That's hence the grieving process. So what would you say to the adopted child, regardless of their age at the moment and where they're at in the journey? What would you say to them as they are facing their own sense of grieving and rejection?

Speaker 1: 20:51

What I would say to them and what I wish I could have said to myself. You know, there's this exercise in that a lot of people talk about, where you look at a picture of yourself as a child and you say what you wish someone would have told you. I would just say as you become older, you will realize. And something that stuck out to me so vividly, like I've said before, is you have no idea what people have gone through and the circumstances that have brought them to where they are today. And that has nothing to do with you, nothing to do with your worth. They are doing the very, very best that they can and it says nothing about your worth as a person. Or you know, they could have very well have wanted to be a part of your life, but there's something that was missing, that that could not happen and you do not have control over that. You only have control over yourself and your circumstances. But just really making them realize it's not about you whatsoever. They are doing the best that they can.

Speaker 2: 22:02

I think that's beautiful, the concept of almost giving the parent that did not choose you the permission to. It's almost like a permission of letting go, I guess. Does that sound right, like this permission of grieving it but then ultimately giving them grace that, like you said, they were in a position where they just felt like something was missing.

Speaker 1: 22:32

It's not always been like that.

Speaker 1: 22:36

There was anger. There was, especially when I had children of my own. Yes, oh, I can imagine it was as hard as this can be, because our first was colic. It was very hard. Our first child was colic and then we had a second. We have no family that lives here in Nashville with us, so we were just doing it all of ourselves. And when they say it takes a village, it truly takes a village and we didn't have that. But in the midst of all of that and all of that difficulty, I thought which is kind of makes me feel guilty for thinking this I could never give one of them up but, I also have resources.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I also was in a good marriage. I also, you know, I was best positioned to be a parent. I think I was very young, we're not going to deny that. But I also, I thought, you know, looking at my children. I remember holding them and feeding them or rocking them to sleep before bed and thinking how could I ever release this child to someone else? But then that goes back to you have no idea what people go through and you can't say that if you had the exact same life circumstances as someone else, that you wouldn't do exactly what they're doing to.

Speaker 2: 23:59

That's right, and I think the beautiful part about that statement is not only is it showing grace, but it is like you have said multiple times it is being really intentional about separating their choices from your self-worth and your own value and, as you have pointed out so beautifully, I think it does take anger probably first.

Speaker 2: 24:27

It does take grieving first. You have to let yourself feel all those emotions before you can even possibly contemplate letting go and separating their story from yours. As you have gotten older, you had mentioned before that it's really been in the last couple years that you have sort of undergone the difficult work to heal in that way. Tell me a little bit how going through that process has also changed uniquely your relationship with God and how you see yourself in light of because I mean, as an adoptive mom, I have to say it's just changed. Not only has it changed the concept of grace for me, but it has truly changed my understanding of what Jesus has done for me and this idea of being adopted into his family. And I'll give this really quick story.

Speaker 2: 25:25

When my son was, he was about five or six, we had just announced that we were adopting and it was about a year later and he was playing in his bedroom and I walked in and he, just out of the blue, he said mommy, I am so excited to share all of my toys with my brother and it just was like in this moment.

Speaker 2: 25:46

It was just this unbelievable realization of like that is exactly what Jesus did for me. It's like I did nothing to deserve it, I did nothing to inherit it, but he just so graciously, has given me his kingdom as brother and sister in Christ. And it was just like that was. You know, kayla was just so excited to share everything and, like our son, you know, he didn't have to earn it, he didn't have to work really hard to get it, he was just chosen and everything is freely his. And it was just such an amazing like. It just has brought scripture alive in a beautiful way. And from your perspective, I would love to hear ways that you have uniquely grown or, yeah, understood Jesus and his love for you better.

Speaker 1: 26:43

I recently love this affirmation and in the affirmation comes from one of my favorite songs and it is that all my life you have been so faithful, all my life You've been so, so good. And looking back after, all of these things have transpired and I've had personal things transpire within my marriage. I've had personal things transpire within my career and going through really tough times and I was guided through that with spiritual counseling and I was. I was pushed to to really think about and really process in my life and that's how I came to the conclusion that you know what actually not knowing my biological father has effect to be in my entire life and knowing that I can think of all of the difficult things I've been through in life and it's just clicked of oh, that's probably and we'll never know, right until we get to heaven and we get to speak and say, well, you know why did this happen?

Speaker 1: 27:51

But it's it's too difficult to speak or mistake them or it's it's been, like I said, from giving me the earthly father that I have that I did not deserve, that I did not ask for. We almost danced to the dad thank you for being the dad that you didn't have to be for me in showing me an earthly, unconditional, loving relationship. They get so tainted with marriages and love and separation, but I will always have that. I will always have that relationship with my earthly father that, no matter what, he loves me and I did nothing to deserve it nothing.

Speaker 1: 28:31

But then also working through a restoration of marriage. You know I think we talked about this on my podcast that you've had a restoration of marriage and it being beautiful in that way. So really thinking about all the difficult times and that's hard for people. It's hard for people to think of how I serve such a good God that these things can happen to me. But there is a real enemy within this world and there are also your choices that have sin, that have repercussions. But coming back to believing that I serve such a good God that everything that he could have ever wanted for me, despite what I want, is better than I could have ever imagined, and that in staying in prayer and alignment with his will, that that will all come to fruition for me, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the beautiful tension of I mean I think this is probably the underlying message of the whole interview, but it's holding in tension. Grief and gratitude is what I hear. It's like we grieve. This is not what it's meant to be. Well, at the same time, holding tightly to.

Speaker 2: 29:48

But, wow, god is so, so good, and for that I'm incredibly grateful, and we can't see exactly why everything has unfolded the way that it has until the you know the other side of eternity, if you will. But yeah, he's so, so good and I think that's a beautiful thing to hold on to, and it takes time to get, as you have said, to get to that point. So now my question is what do you say to the adopting mom from your perspective, which would be me? We haven't brought her son home yet, but really any adopting mom who is struggling to allow herself to grieve it, because it makes her feel nervous that her child won't feel as loved if they acknowledge the adoption, if they talk about the hard things that their child is experiencing and why not only why it is so essential for her to walk down that road, but then practical ways for her to step forward, if you will.

Speaker 1: 31:00

First of all to that mom or to that parent. You are doing the Lord's work. You are embodying exactly who Jesus is and what he did on this earth today and I have so much respect, so much gratitude for that, just like I do for my father, and just knowing it's okay to be nervous, it's okay to not want to talk about it and it's okay to I guess you could say, pretend that that is your biological child, because that's genuinely the way you feel. Right, that child is no different than the child that you birthed yourself, but in the same regard. I know that comes from a good place. But I also think that it's really important that we don't not talk about it Like I know.

Speaker 1: 31:52

I've said that so many times because I think that that's my story. It was just never. I was never asked how I felt. It was always a because I was. I never wanted that's what my dad says. But, vanna, you never wanted for anything.

Speaker 1: 32:09

But I know deep down I wanted that intimate connection of being able to tell them anything. But if you can't talk about the biggest part of their lives, the thing that brought them to you, how are you going to be connected on any other levels and it and something that really sticks with me is I see a lot that says you know when parents, when, when your children grow up and they don't they don't need you for finances, they don't need you for shelter. The only thing that's going to hold together your relationship and your intimate relationship with them is the connection that you form emotionally with your child, and it's so important that their story is a part of that, even if it's it's not, you know, it's not pretty and it is quote unquote ugly. I don't think that it could ever be ugly, but I don't think that that the child will see that until later in life probably. But the practical steps.

Speaker 2: 33:04

It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable, it's beautiful and it feels unsafe. I think, as a mom, is the concern. It feels very unsafe.

Speaker 1: 33:15

And maybe just take baby steps. The practicality of it would be just to take baby steps and, you know, revealing that they they have a story that's different. Maybe just tell them that story. Maybe they know their story and then and then they're the type of child that asks about it. But if they're not the child that asks about it, leave that space open to would you like to ask anything? Or maybe ask them do you feel like this affects you in any way? And it and it may simply not, it may not affect them and you just holding space for them to speak about it. That may be enough for them.

Speaker 2: 33:57

Um. I also would throw out there that I'm sure there's some level of approach that is slightly different based on their age and whether their knowledge of their adoption story, um, you know, some kids know they've been adopted and some kids may even look like their adoptive family. Some kids might not even look significantly different and it almost makes it that much more difficult to talk about the fact that they're adopted because they look so much like their family, um, so there's all, all ends of the spectrum. But you know what? I'm here as a you know adoptive mom about to bring her son home. What I am hearing is that there needs to be ongoing, open, safe space for these conversations to be happening and and I think it's valuable for the whole family to be having them. You know, I think about my biological kids and wanting them to also be empowered to speak openly about the fact that, um, he's adopted. It's a fact, but it's not his value, right, it doesn't define him um, and the fact that he's Polynesian and he's brown skinned and right, it's like these are biological facts, not his value, not who he is, um, and trying to help create that open space.

Speaker 2: 35:14

And then I'm reiterating here what Vanna is saying, as I'm hearing it, um, creating ongoing conversation where we as parents are asking the questions, and I'm uh, what she didn't say and I'll say is this is our responsibility as parents. It doesn't matter if our kid does not show interest, that is our responsibility to bring up the uncomfortable questions. Um, and create that space. So simple ways to ask might be, as Vanna had kind of phrased it Do you ever struggle with feeling different or that somehow? Um, how does it make you feel that you are adopted? I mean, I'm literally throwing out it just to open that space is what I'm, what I'm hearing. Would you add anything to that, vanna?

Speaker 1: 36:07

I think that's a beautiful place to start. And then I also think within prayer and saying Lord, I am a vessel. You know exactly what the child needs. You, you know yesterday, today and tomorrow prompt me and what I should be asking them. But I think the first step is to just is again create an environment and a space that allows them to feel comfortable to even talk about that. And we're, we're starting that with our children, and it's hard. They reject it, they. I have a five year old and a seven year old.

Speaker 1: 36:40

I think it's important to say that age is definitely going to play a role, but when they get really upset in their feelings, they shut out, shut down, they don't want to talk about it. They want to be in their cozy space because we've created that for them. Um, and I will just say I know you, buddy, I know you don't want to talk about this right now and I'm going to respect that. But I'm also going to tell you, when you get older, the more you shut down, the more you bottle up. One day it's going to come to the surface and you can't isolate everyone. So, just again, holding that space, asking God in his leading on that, but also just reiterating of this is this is why I'm coming to you and this is why I'll always continue to come to you. I will never give up on you in this way.

Speaker 2: 37:28

I love it.

Speaker 2: 37:29

It's beautiful and also a beautiful reminder to cap it all with the reality that we're not going to get it perfect, and this is precisely why praise the Lord, we're not doing it alone, and so it was a beautiful reminder that I think, first and foremost, we pray for wisdom.

Speaker 2: 37:46

We pray for wisdom, the questions to ask when to, when to push right, when to pause, when to just pray, when to praise, just asking the Lord for guidance over All of those things and finding support and people like Vanna who are willing to share their story. We are not meant to do life alone, which is why I'm so grateful, vanna, that you have come and shared such a beautiful story, and I'm so grateful for you in the way that God is going to use your willingness to share. And you know, I just I think of your biological dad and in many ways he's given us a gift and I hope, if ever he hears this one day, you know that any shame he feels would just be stripped away because you are such a light and in many ways you know you share things that you would have otherwise not known if, if he had chosen you frankly, and so I'm just so grateful for the gift that you are. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Thank you for allowing me to tell my story, but not only making this a safe, comfortable space for me, because this is, I think, the first time I've ever publicly talked about adoption. I've publicly talked about being half adopted, not knowing my biological father. But as far as the story goes, the background behind it and the emotional aspect that I've had to work through, I think this is the first and only time. Usually I'm on on podcasts talking about skincare and dermatology, so this is it's been very different for me.

Speaker 1: 39:24

Thank you for being patient and again creating a safe space for me.

Speaker 2: 39:29

Absolutely. Thank you for being here.